8 Comments »

fernyb said:
Hilarious part: (12:30 – 13:00)
# 16 January 2010 at 8:11 am

Chris Snazell said:
The Round Table segment was very one-sided.
The central theme of the segment seemed to be that users are ignorant and that we as developers should keep them so. Installing an application on OS X is easy. Anecdotally, none of the non-technical mac users I know have ever had a problem installing or uninstalling indy software bought on the internet.
Rather than saying that someone who has installed an app outside of one of the Application directories is ignorant and therefore we should hide the process of app installation. It’s better to inform the user of the problem and offer to fix it. Rather than perpetuate ignorance, help reduce it.
One of the reasons I try and minimise my use of Windows is because of it patronising behaviour.
Let’s not go down that route.
# 16 January 2010 at 1:25 pm

Jason Spencer said:
@chris
The round table may have been a tad one-sided but I thought the positions were quite reasonable. I do happen to know more than one Mac user who has trouble installing software from a disk image. Those who do get the basic idea still may not quite understand why and when they can throw the original image away. The point is that they shouldn’t have to think about this at all. Why waste their time. Users should be able to browse their options, agree to install and then start using their software. Anything we can do to make this smoother–provided it’s not invasive or hacky–we should be doing it. I also know plenty of people who just plain don’t buy new software. If these people are going to start why add needless stumbling blocks.
Having said that I do agree that there is a possible problem going down this road. The metaphors are changing. There used to be more emphasis on the desktop metaphor and a hierarchical filesystem. With Mac OS X as compared to System 9 you are more likely browse your files than go to where you last put them. iTunes has your music. iPhoto has your pictures. You might not even use your Applications folder or your Dock, or the Finder, you can just search for whatever you want. With the iPhone you don’t even really think of files at all. In general I embrace these changes. These are often things we shouldn’t need to think about.
I am a bit concerned about the direction a tablet from Apple might take. Especially because I’m one of the target people who would want one of these things. I love reading and working on the go but I don’t like the constraints of the dedicated devices like the Kindle. But if I’m going to do actual work on a small machine like this, something I don’t really do on my iPhone, then some of these metaphors are going to need to reappear or be replaced by something else.
To make this a little more concrete, say I have a PDF on my Mac I want to put on my iPhone. There are a number of ways of getting it there. The problem is that all of them are fairly nonsensical or cumbersome. It probably also depends which app I’m using or what kind of network I’m connected to at the time.
A global hierarchical filesystem and desktop metaphor are old and don’t reflect how we work any more, but they still lurk behind how we install applications and use files. We’re slowly doing away with them but can’t quite complete the process while retaining the full ability to work on files in multiple applications and share with other people using different systems.
I’m guessing that the tablet will marry the simplicity of apps on the iPhone with some additional ability to work with files like we have on the Mac. Future incarnations of Mac OS will likely become more and more streamlined in the same way. I just hope Apple has something up their sleeve that adds a cohesive metaphor for these changes.
# 18 January 2010 at 7:00 am

PatrickC said:
Excellent show, both segments interested me.
On Macworld 2010, my only concern with the longevity of MacWorld is since Apple is no longer attending the shows developers now are reflecting more on the actual cost of attending such trade shows as MacWorld. As much as developers know the press flocks to the event, spending tens of thousands of dollars just isn’t in the equation for many indie developers, especially after the recent economic meltdown.
As for the AppStore on the Mac, I agree that there will be 1 or 2 de facto options for users, Bodega probably being one of them. The problem is still going to be I think, customers who don’t look for 3rd party software, aren’t going to look for Bodega, as it is also a 3rd party software. I hope they find ways to tap into the market but it will be quite the challenge.
One thing that could work is if Apple provided the ability to download 3rd party applications through iTunes Store, just how you purchase music and apps. Instead of a built-in solution that would lock developers in, and force them to use Apple’s offering, maybe an option when submitting an app through Apple Downloads is to agree to also have your application sold through iTunes where Apple would approve the app and take a cut from sales. I think this would be powerful as all Macs come with iTunes already, and it would still give developers the ability to sell through other avenues.
# 18 January 2010 at 5:47 pm

Matt Stephens said:
With all the talk of the tablet and your segment on app stores I wanted to add my thoughts and observations. 
Firstly on the iPhone I reckon virtually everyone with the exception of developers thinks it’s fantastic. Clearly Apple feel the same way and for that reason I can’t see them not having a similar model on the tablet.
One would hope that if the AppStore is the only way to get software onto the device that Apple have been listening to the developers who are their biggest critics. It would be nice to feel that developers have a little more control in the process of how they charge for upgrades and interface with the folk who are buying their apps. 
When the debacle over the Tweetie to Tweetie2 upgrade was going on last year it occurred to me that it would be nice if apps developed by the same developer could access data of other apps by that developer. In this way you could have an upgrade path albeit without a different pricing structure for upgraders vs. first timers. You could also have multi application suites which might be worth having on a presumably much more powerful device like the tablet.
I would have thought that since apps are all signed it would be relatively straightforward to open up the app sandbox in this way.
Having said all that I hope the tablet is more open than the iPhone currently is and that there is room for competing stores. Clearly Apple has a headstart but choice is a good thing and competition might move the current AppStore in the right direction on all platforms that bit faster?
Good luck with NSConference, wish I could be there. 
Matt
# 18 January 2010 at 9:51 pm

Matt Stephens said:
Forgot to mention that I really like the idea of the best blog post review from the big blog in future shows. I have trouble finding time to keep up with the number of great posts on there so it’s going to be interesting to find out your highlights.
Matt
# 19 January 2010 at 6:43 am

Adrian Sarli said:
Pretty good show!
I happen to think that the idea of an app store would be very appealing. Being a person who is struggling to write an app, a store would give me one less thing to think about.
Control wouldn’t really matter, as long as there were other options, in my opinion. The biggest issue would be flexibility, which I think Bodega has.
And yes, Chris, I have met several mac users who didn’t know a thing about installing anything. While helping them with their computers, it might be nice to be able to give them a way to find their own software.
And yes, Scotty couldn’t say anything without mubmbleing–I mean, mumbling.
# 19 January 2010 at 7:09 pm

Yogi said:
Good Roundtable session! The numbers speculated on the segment for the desktop users whom never have installed a thing outside Apple provided stuff, is really inspiring in a sense. Makes one also wonder how the indie community could challenge itself to help breaking into these new market territories also as united (marketing, awareness, something) efforts rather than just single devs promoting their app. MacHeist for Mums!
Yogi
# 25 January 2010 at 10:28 pm

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